• How to Listen: Find us on Podbean to stream our episodes.
• Our Mission: This podcast aims to share leadership stories from our VMI Corps of Cadets and high-profile leaders who visit the Center for Leadership and Ethics (CLE) and VMI.
• Your Host: Maj. Catherine M. Roy, Communications & Marketing Manager
• Follow the CLE:  Facebook  Twitter   Instagram  YouTube  LinkedIn
• Episodes feature closed captions

Something Beyond the Routine with Riley Shultz, '24

Transcript for "Something Beyond the Routine" with Riley Shultz, '24

MAJ. CATHERINE ROY, COMMUNICATIONS AND MARKETING MANAGER
Welcome to the VMI Leader journey. I'm your host, Major Catherine Roy, communications and marketing manager at the Center for Leadership and Ethics. This podcast features conversations with VMI cadets, faculty, alumni and VIP guests who come to post. Our conversations highlight leadership, best practices, lessons learned and practical insights. In this episode, we'll hear from Riley Schultz, VMI, Class of 2024.

Schultz is involved in two clubs sponsored by the center the Cadets, Superintendents Advisory Board, an experiential leadership and problem solving club, and the Intercollegiate Ethics and Debate Team. Schultz said he came to VMI for a more profound college experience and to be involved in something beyond the routine. Whether you're a current student, an alum, or simply interested in learning more about the incredible work being done by our student leaders, this podcast is for you.

We think you'll enjoy learning Riley Schultz's perspectives on this installment of the VMI Leader Journey. Let's get into today's episode.

RILEY SHULTZ, '24
Well, thank you for having me on. I really appreciate the opportunity. Like you said, my name is Riley Schultz. I am a senior at VMI, class of 24, and I am from O'Fallon, Illinois, which is near St Louis. I'm an international studies major, and I also take part in the U.S. debate club, VMI and the CIC of the club.

And then I am also the CIC of the cadet superintendent Advisory Board. And then in addition to that, on the Hill, I am Battalion S-1. I work with accountability and administrative stuff with the commandant’s staff.

ROY
And just for the, for audience’s sake, what is a CIC?

SHULTZ
So that means cadet in charge. So it's kind of like a club president equivalent.

ROY
And for CSAB, what are some of your duties and responsibilities?

SHULTZ
So a lot of that has to do with coordinating with Colonel Gray and Dr. Tucker about the mission of the group, as well as what we're moving towards and our agenda, coordinating with the other officers about setting the agenda as well as moving the debate along. And in terms of the CSAB goal of the year.

ROY
And then how do you determine, you're talking about getting to what is identifying a goal? Is that right?

SHULTZ
So usually the way it works is you kind of work with the diverse interests and backgrounds of everyone in the cadet superintendent advisory board based on what issues they see in the Corps. And then we narrow it down to a singular issue that we like to work to solve. And then we collect data on it and then work to solve the issue.

So over the break, we're going to be finalizing a survey. It's going to be sent out to the Corps in the early part of next semester. And then we're going to be working on finding a solution. And our overall problem statement has to do with esprit de corps and pride in being in VMI, and pride in your unit.

ROY
Those themes or goals might change from year to year. How long have you been part of CSAB?

SHULTZ
So this is my second year on CSAB. So last year we worked with the goals of non-commissioned and cadets and how how much they were getting out of the non-commissioning lab. And what we found was that cadets weren’t really getting much out of the non-commissioning required lab. It was just more of a filler requirement they weren't getting much out of and they could actually get more out of, you know, having more free time to look for jobs and do job research.

So we worked to get that requirement modified last year.

ROY
And what was the modification?

SHULTZ
So seniors no longer have to take that non-comm lab. It's still required for for Second Classmen in a sense, because it does provide a lot of really good advice and guidance in terms of making resumé, applying for jobs, applying for grad school. So it's necessary for that for that first year. But they found that they don't only need two years of it.

ROY
Oh, I see. Well, very good. And how did you all come about selecting that as a problem? Well, let me back up for a second. What was the mission of CSAB?

SHULTZ
I think the mission of CSAB is to find leaders within the Corps that aren't necessarily the ones with the Chevrons or the are the ones that are really the class officers. But it's people that are greatly invested in the Corps from a diversity of backgrounds and can come together with that diversity of backgrounds to present ideas and issues that they see that can make positive change at the Institute.

ROY
So it's basically a group that's a problem-solving group that enhances Corps [cadet] life.

SHULTZ
Exactly.

Ask. Exactly. Exactly.

ROY
And then how do you how does one become a member of CSAB?

SHULTZ
So, applications open up every year kinda toward the last few weeks of school. So, there’s kind of a survey sent out with some questions based on what they do at the Institute. Is that sent out corps-wide? Yes, yest it does. It goes out to all the rising first classmen, second classmen, and third classmen, and then there’s the interview process.

And then we have about, I think, 20 members, like a 20-member cap or 20-member availability. And it's not, you know, set at 20. But we do [...] the rising CSAB officers. So it's so this year was me, the rising Vice President, the Rising Secretary, the Operations Officer, and then the assistant to the cadet in charge.

ROY
So you guys, all the officers are intimately involved in screening the applicants, helping the kids who come in,

And then you all do face-to-face interviews, or how does that work?

SHULTZ
Yes, ma'am. So we screened all of the applicants through their applications based on the answers they're putting, the apps that they are putting into their answers and thought they're putting in their answers. And the ones that we really wanted to interview with, we we interviewed.

ROY
Are those in person or on Teams?

SHULTZ
Those. Yeah, we did those in person in the library.

ROY
Okay. Yeah. And what about succession planning? Do you guys identify some of the cadets who might be good officers?

SHULTZ
So we, last year we did elections for CSAB officers. So I put my name on the ballot for, I think, all the officer positions. And then I got one.

ROY
One of these is gonna stick, right?

SHULTZ
I was I was hoping that one of them was stick. So I mean I surprisingly got elected I guess it was a surprise to me. But I got elected as president a cadet in charge. And then we from that point kind of planned how we wanted the year to go and how we wanted to do interviews. And then we just kind of hit the ground running.

ROY
And then how has this year gone? Because you completed last year's tasks, you got the non-commissioning lab no longer requirement for seniors of for as a second year, basically. How's it been going this year for finding a topic?

SHULTZ
So we had our original so we have two meetings for the superintendent. One is in the first semester and one is in the second semester.

ROY
So to clarify, the meeting is actually an executive briefing.

SHULTZ
Yes, ma'am.

ROY
Yes, this is high-level stuff. You can add you know, you're basically adding some skills on your resumé.

SHULTZ
Yes. Right. So we had a meeting with the superintendent, the dean, and the commandant, I think it was earlier October, which is earlier than we usually have that first meeting of the superintendent. And that's a briefing on what our problem statement is. And the superintendent gave us some really good feedback from how to move on from there. And the commandant in the dean also gave some very good feedback from there.

And so from that point, we have been working with that feedback as well as guidance from Colonel Gray and Dr. Tucker. And we even invited Sergeant Major Sauers and Chaplain Casper to come and give some of their feedback, too. So we've been working with that feedback and we just now completed a draft of a survey to send out to the Corps for the next semester.

ROY
Oh, cool. So when you started the semester, were there some ideas already formulated or how did you come about? Like how many did you present several ideas to the superintendent? Yes. Or was there one you really wanted to do.

SHULTZ
So the way it starts out, the first or second meeting, we actually have three different categories on the board. We have regimental system, academic system, I think cadet life systems and everyone just puts on sticky notes of problems that they see in these different categories. I mean, so we have I mean, at least 50 problems up there and we just kind of all, okay, so maybe this isn't a problem to everyone or this is this is more of a perception, okay?

This is something that we can look at. This as something that's a problem that maybe we can't fix, and then we kind of narrow down to what we can look at and what we can fix. So I think we kind of started out with, you know, ownership of decisions in the Corps, and we have narrowed it down to, you know, pride and the esprit de corps.

ROY
So, have you been able to use any particular strategies or decision-making tools in order to do some of this work?

SHULTZ
Well, if you know Colonel Gray, you know he loves decision-making tools and strategies. You know, he's he's got one for his and, you know, it's funny because he'll brief them to me and is like, does that make sense? And it makes sense, but it makes more sense when he just writes it up on the board. Yeah.

And is and his methods are actually really helped. We did one the other day that had to do with whether it was a perception and a reality or whether it was a VMI corps problem or a VMI system's problem. We graphed them, graphed them into quadrants, and it really helped us situate situate our issues into different categories, and we moved on from there.

So I was an example of a really good one that we did so very thankful to Colonel Gray and Dr. Tucker for the guidance they've given us. They've really helped us like move forward and certain places. It kind of seemed like we were stuck.

ROY
So when you all did your brief in the fall to the administrative leaders of the Institute, what was their feedback in terms of the research you had done and the ideas that you had? What was that about?

SHULTZ
So I think their feedback was more of was focus more on issues that could be more supported by data. So that's why we're doing our survey here because and to their point, it is fair that it can be perceived as as feelings when you do bring forward, you know, a conceptual based presentation. So we're we're trying to focus a lot more on data that we're collecting from the core now.

And in more tangible issues such as esprit de corps rather than than ownership.

ROY
And when you say Esprit de Corps, can you define that?

SHULTZ
I think it's pride in going to VMI. And then in the subtext of that pride and, you know, being in your unit, being in your company, your battalion. So I think one of the main issues and there's there's multiple. But, you know, for instance, you know, shining your shoes and, you know, being [proud] in your uniform, not because you might get boned and not because you're a powerful otherwise, but because you're proud of it.

You're proud to be a cadet and.

ROY
So I'm a mom of three kids, so I always tell them, you know, put your best foot forward. If you're going to do something, you know, do it well. Do it thoroughly.

SHULTZ
Yes, ma'am. I've always kind of said that, you know, your uniform appearance is a reflection of the effort that you put into yourself. So, you know, when you step outside of barracks and the way the way you look is the way people perceive you. And then a lot of times perceptions are reality as much as that. That is a hard truth to accept.

A lot of times the way people perceive you is the reality that they make of you.

ROY
Well, you’re trying to make that good first impression. And then if you if you always look like you're ready for the day.

SHULTZ
Well, and it's also the fact, you know, we were, you know, VMI, VMI on our hat brass and wear VMI on our belts and wear the VMI ring. So our appearance isn't just a reflection of us, it’s a reflection of the Institute.

ROY
So you did your briefing in the fall. You've done your research. Now, you’re getting ready to do your survey in the spring, and what's the timeline?

SHULTZ
So we have our survey. We're going to send that out to the Corps in the spring, and then we're going to analyze those results and do it problem-solving. So then make a brief to the superintendent on a tangible solution that we can make. So that brief will most likely be April. I don't believe that the exact date is set in stone yet, but it is going to be in April, early April.

So from there we're going to brief him and then get his feedback and a yes or no or a modified yes or no to the solution that we're making.

ROY
For some of the reasons that you came to VMI, one of them being that, that you wanted a deeper college experience and having pride in something greater than yourself. How has being a member of CSAB contributed or has it contributed to that? Has that satisfied that desire that you get from that something different?

SHULTZ
Well, yeah, I go, I'm going back. The first time I was like, I was not a part of a military family or anything like that was really on my radar in high school. It really kind of came like senior year. I really wanted to go to VMI just more because I wanted to be a part of that greater than myself.

You know, I saw my sister go to regular college and like she talked about, you know, the dumb stuff that goes on in regular college. And I was like, I really don't want any part of that, to be honest. So I, I went to VMI, not just because I wanted to go to college. I wanted to get something more out of college than just an education or, you know, fake friends.

I wanted a real relationship, some bonds that would last a long time. Going back to have I seen that and CSAB. Definitely, because, I mean, the thing I really respected most about CSAB is that it's not that there's no one group that's overrepresented in CSAB. Everybody comes from a different aspect, a different specialty, a different motivation at VMI.

You know, we have rankers non-rankers athletes, non -athletes really just every, every make and mold the people at VMI and all of them come together and say, you know, this is something I see that maybe you don't see and this is something, hey, maybe everybody sees. And I think that's, that's really beneficial that people that a lot of times are not seen as, you know, maybe running in the same groups can come together and make those positive solutions.

ROY
And so when they say, like group comes together, there's the norming and storming and then forming this. Did you see that with the new group of cadets?

SHULTZ
Yes. And one of the things is that, you know, you have people who have things that their ,their minds are set. You know, this is a problem. We need to fix it. And we should go through all the measures and fix it. And a lot of times you have to realize that maybe what you see as a problem is really not that big a problem to other people.

And more importantly, sometimes the superintendent won't see it as a bigger problem. When we present these solutions to the superintendent, you have to realize that, you know, you know, if he's going to agree with your solution, he has to agree that it is, too, a problem. So...

ROY
And a solvable one.

SHULTZ
And yes, a solvable one too. So also one of the things people bring up is, you know, they'll bring up an issue that we see and we have to many times say, well, is that something that we can really solve? You know, so some of that stuff has to do with stuff that's even higher than Smith Hall.

You know, it's you know, you know, it's stuff that we can't really fix.

ROY
And then you're also a member of the Ethics club.

SHULTZ
Yes, ma'am.

ROY
About how long you've were there. What's your role on that?

SHULTZ
So I started third class year as a sophomore. I, I was motivated to join by one of my S-1 sergeants at the time, Harris Burton, and she later became a lieutenant. And she's kind of really motivated me throughout my way. She's always been a mentor to me, so I joined that and then second class year, Harris became the cadet in charge, and I was the assistant cadet in charge.

And we were having a really successful year. We were the first team in the in my history to go to the Nationals for the ethics board. And then in April we were the we defeated all the service academies at the military ethics Case competition in Annapolis, Maryland. And we didn't just when we got a perfect score by one of the judges.

So we were really successful last year. We had a really powerhouse team and now I'm now I'm the cadet in charge of the team and we're gearing up for the military ethics case competition in April.

ROY
And that's a big one.

SHULTZ
That's, that's, that is our Super Bowl.

ROY
Best of luck to you all.

SHULTZ
Thank you.

ROY
How's it been that now that you're in charge and are you still in touch with Cadet... well, she's a graduate now, Burton?

SHULTZ
Yes, I'm still in touch with her. You know, we we text and talk every now and then. She's in law school now, so I've been texting her about, you know, law school stuff. Yeah. So, you know, I do give her updates. And so every now and then it's and I have asked her for advice before on stuff. You know, that's I think that's part of the thing about leadership is, is humility.

You know, you never know all the answers. And if you do think you know all the answers, then you should probably rethink your mindset.

ROY
And who's the ACIC?

SHULTZ
The assistant cadet in charge is Riley Malone. So we are the team of Riley and Riley. And trust me, we make sure we make sure to make that joke to all the judges. He's he's a great guy. He's he's really stepped up. He knows a lot about ethical frameworks, and he brings a lot to the table. So he’s a second-classman.

ROY
Do you look to him to maybe take the reins for next year?

SHULTZ
I certainly hope he does. Yeah.

ROY
Are you planning on going to law school?

SHULTZ
Yes, ma'am. I've applied and been accepted to a few law schools. Right now, I'm leaning toward going to the University of Nebraska. I haven't made any formal commitment yet, but I think that's the one I'm leaning towards.

ROY
You also mentioned that you're an S-1 Lieutenant.

SHULTZ
Yeah.

ROY
So what is that role like?

SHULTZ
So I've been on S-1 since I was a corporal when I was a third classman. So S-1 deals, deals with accountability, administrative duties, and the guard team at VMI. So my specialty is kind of accountability. And I help out with the other stuff, too, a little bit in terms of the administrative stuff. So S-1, that’s the one that has the most breadth of duties.

And we have to know a lot of stuff about what we're doing. And we deal with just day to day accountability. And a lot of times we get tasks and I comment on the office, I kind of are different and unique in their own ways, and we have to figure out how to solve those.

ROY
Tell me, like what would be an instance where you would have some face-to-face interaction with the cadet with within your duties.

SHULTZ
So when we do out-processes of, of rats, we have to make sure we get all the signatures that are required with the company TAC. The commandant usually wants to meet with them too, before they leave. Also, with accountability, day-to-day we make sure other accountability procedures are followed so that, you know, for instance, right after Thanksgiving break, me and the S-1 captain, we're in the commandant's suite office with different members of comm’s staff making sure that every company had their accountability submitted after Thanksgiving break to make sure all the cadets were accounted for.

ROY
And then what kind of leadership skills would you say that that helps you with?

SHULTZ
I would say it definitely teaches you professionalism at an age where a lot of people are not learning professionalism. So and that's not across the board. But I would say that I've learned how to deal with, you know, different tasks and different unexpected things in the plan. And I've also learned how to work with people that have a lot of experience, and I learned a lot from that.

ROY
How about peer leadership?

SHULTZ
Yeah, I've learned and it's great that I've been on S-1 since I was a corporal because I learned a lot about what it means to, you know, be a part of that team. So as a corporal, I, you know, I didn't have anyone to to lead, but I learned a lot about followership. Then, you know, as a sergeant, that's when I had corporals below me and I think the biggest thing I learned from that year is is that a good leader treats the people below them as family and, you know, make sure that, you know, they can always be someone that they look up to as someone that they can go to.

And as a sergeant. I think that's still the best. You learn that because you still have people mentoring you. You know, I had Harris Burton still mentoring me and and Ainsley Felder at the time that were mentoring me. And then I also had, you know, all my my corporals at the time they were looking up to me.

So I learned about that from like both sides of it. And now that I'm an officer, I kind of have learned how to, you know, not have to ask as many questions. But, you know, I still do have those questions and, you know, but also making myself, you know, someone that always is there for people below me and advocating for the people below me.

ROY
You're saying what's up with asking questions, do you see the different ‘rainbow’ books of regulations and things like that? Like how much how much familiarization do you have to do?

SHULTZ
I mean, it's not it's not a crazy amount of familiarization. And if there is questions, there's usually somebody who knows the answer. I think, like I said earlier, a big part of leadership is the humility to accept and be okay with the fact that you don't have all the answers. But that someone else might. And sometimes that person is someone lower than you on the chain of command.

SHULTZ
And so I've asked, you know, my sergeant's questions before about why I didn't have the answer to. But they might have just because of what they were what they were doing with their duties that day.

ROY
Now, you talked a little bit about your teams being kind of like family. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

SHULTZ
Yeah. So I think as a corporal, I just learned about like how my sergeants would always, you know, make sure that, you know, we were doing okay and that we were making sure that we all felt welcome and supported. One thing I've learned at VMI is that your dyke should not be the last bit of mentorship that you have.

So, you know, you're dyke always be the greatest mentorship that you have, but it shouldn't be the last mentorship that you have. So after you're dyke leaves, find other people to mentor you and mentor other people that, whose dykes have graduated. So you know, when I was a corporal, you know, my dyke wasn't here anymore. But I think my sergeants kind of, you know, made sure that, you know, as thirds obviously didn't know everything yet and knew a lot less than everything that, you know, we would we were taking care of and we were always supported.

SHULTZ
And I even had that as a sergeant, my officers looking after me. So I say that mentorship is always available [at] VMI and that as you get up in classes at VMI, as you become a second classman and a first classman and always look to mentor people and always look to provide, you know, guidance to people because they don't always have the answers.

And also accept the fact that you don't always have all the answers.

ROY
We talked a little bit about, you know, what is your you've had LEAD 344, leadership in organizations, and have you thought about or put together what your leadership style is?

SHULTZ
I, I would say I try to be I try to be a servant leader. I would say I always try to help people that are, you know, working for me and in the way that I can. And anyhow, sometimes that doesn't have to always be. I just, you know, helping people out of the job that can be, you know, hey, let's have a meeting and I'll get you guys doughnuts or something like that.

You know what I mean? So I think, I think I always try to make that friendly environment too. And also just, you know, being honest with yourself, you know, a lot of times that has to do with do I really know what I'm talking about? And if I don't know what I'm talking about maybe I should, you know, ask this person, you know, defer.

Yes.

ROY
Or be quiet.

SHULTZ
Yeah.

ROY
When we're talking about the family environment here, would it be fair to say that what you're talking about is checking in on people, having empathy for people?

SHULTZ
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that motivates them. I think motivation is the is the biggest benefit of that. So I think seeing that it you know across all the levels. Right. So with my sergeants you know like making sure that they're that they're like doing okay with the new leadership responsibilities that they have this year as a sergeants and making sure that you know that they're that they're doing well with that.

And I'm really proud of them because they're stepping up and being the next leaders of the Corps. And, you know, I've seen them grow as corporals. I'm immensely proud of them. And, you know, seeing my corporals grow up and take up the new responsibilities and, you know, finding their way to third class year, you're you know, I'm proud of them for for that.

And I always want to make sure that they're they know that, you know, I'm looking out for them. I'm proud of them for what they've done. And, you know, last last year with my rat, I would say I'm most proud of all because, you know, he's I mean I mean, he's my he's my pride and joy. You know, I'm immensely proud of my rat.

And I couldn't have asked for a better rat and I was checking with him all the daily, you know, how was your day? How are how your grades are doing and and stuff like that. And, you know, really his his smile is contagious. So, you know, seemed and so really just to see that see that that reflected and seeing how people prosper just because, you know, you check in on people's on times that it really makes a difference in my day.

ROY
That's great. That sounds a little counter to how some people or even we have described the cadet experience here at VMI. We call it an adversarial environment, mainly because there's so many challenges. You know, you're separated from your family, you're going away to school. So every school has that. But here, then you've got to be a part of the Rat Line and you've got a challenge for your time versus academics versus military duty.

And we talked a little bit about your thoughts on whether or not VMI really was an adversarial system. Can you share your thoughts on that?

SHULTZ
Well, it's certainly adversarial in that it presents you challenges that you wouldn't see at any other college in the United States. And it prevents it presents you from it presents you hardships that make you a better person at the end of the day and help you have resiliency that I know I certainly would not have if I went to a regular college.

Now, I would like to expand on the fact as adversarial and that it is not always to beat you down as to, but it's to build you up.

It’s to give you perseverance, but it's also to make you a stronger person that can look out for not just yourself, but for others. I think it teaches you how to how to not blame the world for your own problems.

I think before I came to VMI and I had this concept of like if something bad happened, it like it wasn't my fault, you know, like this happened. This happened. And I think VMI teaches you to say, yep, this was my fault. And that doesn't mean that, you know, it was a it was a failure in a negative sense.

It was it was a learning experience. And that's what VMI is. It's a learning experience here. I can do everything right the first time. Everyone's going to get the merits and everyone's going to fail at some way and everyone's going to get a really bad test grade at some point in their cadetship. And it's about how you just come back from that and it helps you learn where you messed up and how you can do better from that point.

ROY
Can you describe the situation where you have what might be the most memorable struggle or failure, if you can even qualify it that way that you've had here that you overcame? And what was that like?

SHULTZ
I think I had this really hard class. I should research design for political science. And I mean, I just thought I was not doing very well in the class. And I think eventually I realized, you know, how to deal with or how to, like, take the teacher's feedback in and move on in a positive sense and and really capitalize on that feedback and I saw my I saw myself do better and was more comfortable with how the assignments were working towards the end.

And, you know, I did really well in the final presentation and the presentation, the final paper. And, you know, I eventually got in that class and I, I really was happy with with how I worked. Like that classmate was probably the hardest one I've had of VMI, but I was the most proud of.

ROY
Was that a pep talk that you gave yourself, or how did you turn that around?

SHULTZ
I think it's just adapting to adapting to. I don't think I gave myself too much of a pep talk so much as I just kind of realized how how to just deal with it. There's no really flowery way to say it, you know, I was able to contextualize everything and like, we felt like, you know, I had a lot of things.

coming at me at one time, you know, with other classes and everything, I was able to just kind of take it one step at a time.

ROY
And how do you organize yourself? Do you keep bullet lists or...

SHULTZ
I should keep a bullet list. And I tell them and I tell myself that. I told myself at the beginning of every semester that I'm in, I'm like making a list of some I have to do it. And then all this time I just kind of like remember in my head and, you know, probably more organized if I kept a list and I on the goal to set in the future.

But I think it I think is yeah, I think it's genuinely just taking it one step at a time, one day at a time. I know like when, when you're a rat and they give you like advice before how week. So you just take it one meal at a time. Just get get to like the next meal. I think at VMI, you kind of just have to take a week by week, day by day sometimes, and just take a deep breath and just let things come as they will.

And I just have the I just have the serenity to accept the things that sometimes you can't change.

ROY
Did you have any situations or circumstances like here that at VMI where you were just like I just need to get through the next class or the next day?

SHULTZ
Yeah, I think I mean, I think every kid that experiences towards the end of the semester when you have all these papers due. I mean just the last week, I mean, we've all experienced this, you know, you have all these papers due, all these assignments due, and quite a few tests with it all up in the last week.

And so, I mean, you really do have to just take it one paper at a time on assignment at a time.

ROY
So next semester you're going to be doing your survey for the CSAB and getting that feedback, doing your brief out and then you’ve got the MECC competition that you're prepping for as well. Yeah, and then you graduate.

SHULTZ
Surprisingly so. It's been a it's been a long but a very short four years.

ROY
Everybody says that! Yeah, looking back in there. So, any regrets?

SHULTZ
I can't think of any right now. I mean I certainly do not regret coming to VMI. I mean I, I always think about like how much I would regret it if I, if I didn't come here. I think that's the thing about VMI is that it doesn't it doesn't. It doesn't meet the expectations in the sense that, you know, you don't you don't you can't expect what's coming, you know, so so Exactly.

So it can't meet your expectations because you don't know what to expect. So even if you think you know what to expect, even if even if your family is alumni, which mine is not, and I know people who even their family was alumni and they still don't really know what to expect, you know.

ROY
That's why we call this podcast the VMI Leader Journey because everyone's experience here is unique, as is as unique as they are as individuals.

SHULTZ
Exactly.

ROY
Any advice that you have for underclassmen or.

SHULTZ
I would say remember every day, like why you why you love this place and why you decided to come here and think about, you know, hanging out with your roommates in your room and hanging out with, you know, all your friends and how, how you just you simply would not have that in other colleges. So just remember why you love this place and every little thing about this place that might be dumb, but that you wouldn't have anywhere else, and that what truly makes you a better person.

ROY
Yeah, that's great advice. Well, thank you very much, Riley, for being part of this show.

SHULTZ
Thank you so much for having me.

ROY
This has been a strategic outreach program of the VMI Center for Leadership and Ethics. We educate, engage, and inspire the leadership journey of our VMI community and the nation. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast to follow along as we release new episodes. Follow the VMI Center for Leadership and Ethics on LinkedIn, Facebook, YouTube and Instagram to learn more about our programs and events or visit our website at VMI dot EDU forward slash C-L-E. Thanks for tuning in.